You’re looking at the most underrated pair of khakis on the market.
Over the past few weeks I’ve noticed something interesting relating to these particular J.Crew chinos. After randomly talking to three people who work for three different clothing companies (who are not J.Crew) I began to notice a pattern. Curious, I had asked each of these people a simple question “who makes your pants?” One by one they all told me (in a hushed voice, seriously) that they are from J.Crew. It was almost as if these pants were some sort of speakeasy and they didn’t want the rumor to get out. I understand that they didn’t want to be seen as a defector, but this was an amusing situation considering we are talking about a pair of cotton pants.
All of the intrigue around these khakis led me to the J.Crew Liquor Store to take a look for myself. I ended up leaving with my own pair and have gone to wear them roughly 25 times in the span 30 days. I had to ask myself had I joined a secret club of amazing pants?
Produced under the Wallace & Barnes sub-label (which is J.Crew’s workwear slanted collection) these khakis are made from a narrow-loom Japanese selvedge fabric which is so rigid that it can basically stand on its own. The selvedge bit matters only if you are concerned with visible details at the cuff and the potential for quality that selvedge normally signals. To me selvedge is a nice to have, not a need to have. I’m more concerned with the fact that the fabric is so rigid, and in a way, raw. These pants are going to wear in like a pair of raw denim jeans, which is an attractive proposition for people like me who like to do the breaking-in themselves. (J.Crew is recommending 60 wears before washing and I would execute this method of care.)
The average guy who is looking for a worn-in and soft pair of pants does not understand these chinos at all. Though, the rigidness is exactly the aspect that makes them so appealing to me. I also appreciate the way the fit and stiffness of the cloth interact. It’s also just nice to know that for once you’re in on the secret.
Are you on drugs? These are $288. They’re not even made in the US.
Nice chinos. But for nearly twice the price of some Bills Khakis or OConnells chinos? Seriously?
I mean C notes. Ha ha.
RRL much?
$288 for a pair of khakis is simply un-American
Yeah, I’ve been wearing raw selvedge chinos from RRL for two years now that are exactly like this. They’re great. I just got my second pair since I wore out the first one.. have had the crotch repaired three times.
Weird that this is being treated as some sort of secret when it was cheaper and already available from RRL.
Josh — I don’t think everyone is onboard with the RRL version. That’s my perspective.
Anyone else ready to head on over to your local J Crew store with torches in hand? Beyond exhausted with J Crew’s whole racket. The quality of their clothes is just so poor and it blows my mind the prices they slap on them.
And how is this not a sponsored post? Sure seems like you are peddling their overpriced junk.
Dont you legally have to disclose when there’s a relationship here in which you make money? It kind of makes me not love your website as much to read this kind of thing and feel like I’m being sold to covertly.
Not sponsored and I don’t do any work for them. Wearing the pants as I type actually. Vote with your wallet. And we are very upfront about sponsored posts, clients etc. We also have written about J.Crew a total of one time this year (if I am correct), so I think maybe you are going to a bit of an extreme.
I’ll splurge my cash if i can use them reversed, at least people will be able to read the text in the pockets. and will keep the price tag (btw 300€ in europe, close to 380$) attached to my neck too. nice chinos of course…
Cool work, Michael. Keep it up.
I am sorry, sir. Everyone is not “onboard” with the RRL version? Are the arbiter of the entirely world now? You must be on some sort of drugs. In no world, will J.Crew make something on par with RRL. RRL makes some of the finest selvedge products in the world. Open your eyes, son.
They look pretty good. I have to say that these are likely to knock spots off them:
http://www.superdenim.com/prodpage.asp?productid=2895
Simplicity, quality and authenticity is something of an obsession for McCoy’s & having broken a pair in for a year or so now they’re like a great pair of jeans, if not better. Just keep on improving.
What is RRL? $228 for a pair of pants is insane. $39. LLBean perhaps.
My My….all this controversy over pants. Yoiu really touched a nerve. We are extremely passionate about our chino’s. So is the rest of the world….Lets celebrate the brands that bring us the best production they possibly can of a classic American icon. You don’t HAVE to buy them
Appreciate the article, although I may never treat myself to a pair. (Maybe Christmas time? hmmm) However, I AM a fan of their Broken-in, classic fit chinos, that go for $75. Love em! And they come in a variety of colors, unlike the chinos in the article.
Lol, I copped them last year on sale for under a buck 80 and I couldn’t believe no one knew about them. They compare well to the RRL’, which I have.
It may be a decent chino, but in no way does a JCrew chino compare to a RRL chino, Bills, Buzz Rickson’s, or even an O’Connell’s khaki ($99 & better rise). I think this review’s premise that this is one of the best chinos out there is a little headlong without consideration of so many other great chinos out there.
O’Connell’s is good if you want to look like a dad. Bill’s makes a great chino, as do many people in Japan. THIS IS NOT A ZERO SUM GAME.
Michael, check out chinos by Stevenson Overall Company, i believe the details and the fabrics will impress you, and they cost less than these (though not by much).
The reaction to these is truly absurd. The internet is such a magical place.
While I agree with a lot thats being said here with no pair of pants worth a $288 price tag, I don’t think Michael is being payed by anyone. Jcrew isn’t the be all end off of men’s clothing, but it’s a rather affordable one for people who want to purchase a certain look.
Would love to see more “insider” info on certain pieces shared among the menswear folk you speak with. It always interest me where people shop, what brands they love, and even if they chose a cheaper version, why.
Keep up the great work.
@SargentCharlie +1
The quality of J Crew’s clothes is abominable, especially the shirts and sweaters. I will grant that they know how to put together a nice catalog.
Man, what happened to this site?
Rad. I would love to see what these look like with a years fade.
270$ is ridiculously obscene.
INCOTEX
I LOVE THIS THREAD! It’s a throwback ! Also I have
had great luck with the Wallace and Barnes fit. Not with RRL.
Amazing Pants Club.
Checked the UK version of the J.Crew website – currently on sale for £288, which equates to nearly $460.
I hope the shipping comes with the secret to eternal life
Man! There are some j.crew haters here! Truly, these are some nice chinos and i really would be onboard if they weren’t “import” **china. Mostly because if it didn’t cost much to make it shouldn’t be this large of a markup. The cut and fabric looks awesome though.
http://leftfieldnyc.com/products/dark-khaki-13-oz-calvary-twill-military-field-pant
America!!
$288? They aren’t even Bugleboys!
Okay team, you’ve made your point. I looked at the price and didn’t post a comment for the same reason I don’t post negative comments on the price of super cars, when all I can afford is a used Mustang GT.
Cheers, Michael
The price tag of this very precious pair of pants belies the humble origin of the venerable chino and – in a very real way – cheapens what has been and ought always be an American standard. J Crew often displays a wonderful sense of the American prep aesthetic. It’s a damn shame that it has chosen to besmirch this iconic bit of menswear with what appears to be an elitist product.
What’s next? $250 Chucks?
Why is it surprising/aggravating that they cost what they cost? We keep paying these high prices, they’ll keep pricing em that way. Maybe i wear khakis a lot, but i don’t think it’s ridiculous. I wouldn’t even know where to start to find a great pair of denim for much less than that price point, and a great khaki is much harder to find than a great pair of jeans IMO. One upside is that they’ll eventually be great shorts as well.
But thats so much money for a notebook are you insa… oh, nevermind.
@jay! Ha
You may not “do any work for them,” but it took about 20 seconds to find that a bag under the ACL name was carried at J. Crew. (http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/07/22/acl-co-x-j-crew-canvas-coal-bags/) You clearly have a relationship with J. Crew, one that you’ve personally benefited from. Seriously, this post reads like a press release. J. Crew liked it enough to tweet it (followed by your own RT). Their marketing department must be thrilled that you’re doing their legwork.
If you’re looking for an affordable, stiff chino, I recommend Mountain Khakis. Get the ‘Broadway’ fit.
Here’s a post from 2010 (also involving J.Crew) where people were mad at the price of these canvas bags that we made: http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/07/22/acl-co-x-j-crew-canvas-coal-bags/
Here’s everyone getting pissed off about a notebook I bought: http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2010/06/03/wanted-acquired-smythson-notebook/
People have been saying that ACL has been “going downhill” since 2009. We must be close to the bottom by now.
@ML We’ve sold them advertising in the past as well. I have a relationship with a lot of companies who make clothes and I work for a lot of companies who I cover (always with disclosure). But the fact remains that J.Crew didn’t pay me to write this post or give me the pants. I bought them with my own money. They didn’t even pitch this to me. I found it and decided to do this all on my own. But you have a right to be skeptical. I’m skeptical at almost everything I read because most sites don’t do any disclosure at all. I think we do better. But if you don’t agree, no one is forcing you to visit. There are less expensive pants other places. Don’t let me stop you.
Michael, I don’t get the hate comments. You are free to write as you wish and nobody has to pull the trigger on buying anything they don’t want. These are expensive but to each their own. My question is how do these compare to the M4 Fit Cramerton Bill’s? They are a similar price point. I have an order in for another size s my first attempt resulted in a return…didn’t love the fit.
http://www.billskhakis.com/selvedge-cramerton-m4?bk_color_product=2718
Cheers,
Michael
Article comment threads are the sewers of the interwebs.
In the past, I thought the VERY CLEAR statements about sponsored posts were almost laughably large.
The idea that MW could go shop at J.Crew after noting a pair of pants that he liked in the wild (Bloggers! They’re just like us!) and then give them a review/précis, seems dangerously close to what I’d read this or any other blog for. The fact that he’s worked with/for them in the past may offer more insight into the product, which I’m thankful for.
Kudos to another excellent comment thread. I fondly recall reading the notebook posts and laughing out loud.
Whoa. I didn’t expect this thread to blow up, I don’t understand all the vitriol. I hope I didn’t come across that way – more I was just confused about the differentiation versus the standard bearer that I’ve come to love.
I’m curious as to what people think about this one versus the RRL one, since you mentioned that not everyone is onboard. I am unaware of any controversy regarding the RRL version.. other than the price, which I’ve rationalized by how much wear and abuse mine received. But you’re right, it’s not a zero-sum game.
If this were a sponsored post/he was being paid for it, don’t think he and J Crew would have chosen an article of clothing with better inventory? This pant is essentially sold out online….or is this all part of the conspiracy?
I think the site operates on two levels, and they sometimes conflict. One is that it’s central value is that it is constructed as something personal, curated, the taste and aesthetic of its author.
So when there are critiques, it’s too easily to uncritically get defensive. Because this is unequivocally a business, and that’s the other level. This site makes money, it’s not something on the side, it’s for-profit. And so you can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a restaurant and complain about bad yelp reviews.
I give you props for allowing the critical comments and for your aesthetic. 47 comments has to be good for business, no?
There’s room in the pocket for a nice Smythson’s notebook.
“O’Connell’s is good if you want to look like a dad.”
Mike do you think all those dudes in the old Kodachrome shots, those images that you and a sea of others romanticize and claim ‘inspiration’ from, do you think those guys went to the store way back then and sought out ‘slim fit’ or gave a crap about a ‘silhouette’? Would they make fun of someone for wearing dad pants? I think they went to the store and just bought pants. The way this stuff has been fetishized would dumbfound those old dudes (and ladies). And it’s plural- a pair of pants, saying ‘pant’ is just embarrassing.
@Jeffr Wait, caring about fit and silhouette is bad? I don’t think we should be friends anymore. I love O’Connell’s, but I’m just not going to wear a lot of that stuff. Maybe some people do. I just wouldn’t advocate that for most people.
I went to Goodwood earlier this year and it was cool to see all of the people dressed in period clothing, but most of us have to tread lightly on that stuff in everyday life. And why are you so offended? This is almost comical. I want you to go and tell a friend about how you got mad today because someone said something negative on the internet about “Dad Pant(s)” and let me know how they react to your admission. Please do that and share that here.
Who pay full retail anyway plebs
I’m sure those pants are fine, the only thing odd about the post is the premise – “underrated,” “top secret.” These are more expensive than just about all the competition and they come from a mass market mall brand. And they’re not all that under the radar – I’ve been aware of them for a while.
I suppose if you’d framed it differently – “Hey, you may have wondered why these j.crew chinos are the most expensive repro chinos on the market – well, actually they’re awesome and totally worth the price” – you’d have gotten a different response.
@jack
“The quality of J Crew’s clothes is abominable, especially the shirts and sweaters”
Hyperbole much?
Honestly, because they last for years with regular use, so I’m not sure what you’re on about, besides trying to sound cool, and failing.
J Crew quality is as bad as the fit. They knock off good stuff good people make in America and they charge a mint. Their method inspires the hate and they rightly deserve it.
I’m sure it’s possible to find some nice odd pair of pants or shirt there. I have an old pair of J Crew pants that work. We all do. So I doubt MW review is anything but genuine. But like a lot of others, I hate to see them get any positive press when they clearly deserve none of it because most of their stuff is second rate crap.
I just lost a lot of respect for ACL. I do believe that you did not get sponsored by J Crew in any way for this post, but it is definitely true that you had a working relationship with them in the past. Also, none other than ACL promoting a pair of Chinese-made trousers that are being sold by a mass retailer at kind of a ridiculous price is very troubling.
I wish more clothiers would include button flies. They feel better, dress better, look better.
Wow this comments thread is almost as comical as Hypebeasts.
Ah, classic ACL comment thread with throwback hyperlinks that make me think, “whatever happened to that A.P.C. interview?” I love the otaku-level-rage some of these posts generate.
MW,
Long time reader here. I read this site for style information, and more specifically for Americana style. I don’t read ACL for haute couture, value buys, Euro-styling, auto reviews, or whatever the heck it is people are complaining about today that you don’t do.
So you like pants that cost $288. Notebooks that cost $$$. I’m pretty sure the underlying philosophy that you’ve espoused all these years have been about quality and buying the best you can afford because it will last you forever. Wearing the same pants 25 days out of 30, and likely keeping them forever, I am pretty sure is exactly in line with your usual M.O.
Keep up the good work.
Did you get a friends and family discount or did you pay full freight for them?
I paid full price actually. I generally buy all my clothes and don’t work deals for freebies. Sometimes I get things for free though. But I don’t trade clothes for posts. I don’t want to owe people favors. I cover the stuff I like. Even if this is a business it’s not my main source of income. So i’m not beholden to any one company.
J Crew steps for success
1. Create new line out of thin air (Wallace and Barnes)
2. Put it in catalog next to expensive, yet quality brands (Barbour, Quoddy, etc)
3. Fool people into paying more for same crappy clothes
4. Watch money roll in
“OConnell’s is good if you want to look like a dad.” LOL. Well, for one, I am a dad. For two, that’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard. So done with this blog.
Bye Gary
Love the post, MW. You are allowed to spend your money on whatever the fuck you want and, as far as I know, its your site and you can post whatever the fuck you want on it. Why all these people visit a site they “can’t stand” and take the time to comment their vitriol towards ACL is beyond rational thought.
I don’t like most of the stuff you like, but I love the way you present it. Thanks for the free entertainment and visual inspiration you have given me since I discovered ACL in ’09.
Very long-term reader here, and this is the first time I have ever felt compelled to comment: not only are they $288, but they don’t even *deign* to make a 38 waist. I know exactly where J Crew can shove these.
Wow. You guys should just turn off comments. So much intense pants-related anger!
J. Crew Employee here:
I worked in menswear retail for about 4-5 years before recently starting to work with J. Crew this past August. I used to knock J. Crew. I’d say about 70-80 percent of my closet is US or Italy made. But now that I am surrounded by J. Crew garments on a daily basis, the one consistent truth seems to be you get what you pay for. The value is there and more pieces are starting to creep into my closet.
The “premium” products like this selvedge pant, suiting, and Thomas Mason shirting are definitely worth the money. And it comes with all those intangible values like being able to buy an oxford shirt in NYC (or online) and return to any other J. Crew nationwide, and complimentary no hassle hemming (if you have the card), etc.
In terms of the price let’s be honest, people are always waiting for sales to happen to buy things so the $288 tag is to be able to run 30% offs to appeal to those “i-will-only-buy-on-sale” people. I’d be interested to see how people what dollar amount people would value them at if they had no labels on them (perhaps an interesting feature idea Michael?).
I’ve seen garments from RRL (a lot made overseas too) and I bet if you slapped a cool RRL logo on the W&B stuff, placed it on a cooler website, and merchandised it in an even cooler obscure shop, you wouldn’t even suspect a difference. Coincidentally I just browsed the RRL thread on StyleForum and it seems people think RRL has been off their game as of late…worth reading. Also it’s not like RRL invented military styled chinos…I think the military did…
The “J. Crew guy” who I deal with on a daily basis cares about three things performance, fit, and feel, and NOT BRANDING (which I sort of envy). Judging by how many sizes are sold out at the time of writing this, this pant seems to meet that criteria very well.
The fit on these is pretty much like the 770 they produce. As a guy with big thighs and calves, the 33×32 fit me great without being skintight after consistent wear. I myself do not own them but that’s because I already have a pair of selvedge canvas pants from The West is Dead (still available on their site), definitely more of a “jean” than chino but equally as cool. They are still going strong. But you can bet I have my eye on these now.
Overall all the Japanese fabric garments J. Crew produces are top notch. The Kaihara denim does very well, even the non-selvedge ones and guys seem to like how they fit better than the standard denim. I just picked up the japanese seersucker suit which after tailoring the jacket should be excellent. Pants fit great off the rack, cuts just right with a clean break.
Is J. Crew perfect at everything? No. Do they produce a lot of “meh” stuff? Yes. I think the mens leather goods could use some work as well as the boys line. But there is a lot of cool stuff and hidden gems if you know how to look for it. J. Crew has a very specific point of view and if you think they are ever going to be RRL you should call it quits now…
Here’s a quick list of what I like J. Crew for:
-Easy to shop, easy returns
-VERY good suiting construction at at even greater price
-Japanese and Italian fabrics used throughout
-Great feedback loop: the more customers buy into stuff like this selvedge chino, the more will get made and get even better.
-Champions the little guy: introduces a lot of guys to smaller niche brands and vice versa. No one forces Alden or Chamula to work with J. Crew. From an inside point of view, I’ve chatted with the Apolis guys about their dealings with J. Crew and they had nothing but praise.
OK that’s it. Thanks MW for at least sparking a conversation. Let the rage begin…
Thanks Michael, nicely done. I’m a dad and don’t like the appearance of “dad pants” at the age of 51. I am still particular about how things fit. That’s why I enjoy reading your blog.
At $288 I probably won’t buy a pair, but that’s because I’m hard on pants and trousers and can’t see spending that much on something I’ll tear or stain irrevocably in short order. I’m a craftsman and sometimes forget to change what I’m wearing when I go out to my shop. Nice to know their out there though even if I am not their intended market (Strangely I collect watches, mostly vintage and you can’t get a nice one for less than that serviced – priorities, I guess).
Thanks for your measured responses to your critics, nice to see that you just don’t have an ability to write, but have manners also. Thumbs up.
The khakis are just fine.
The washing method is not. Why any man who cares about his appearance would wear a clothing item for days/weeks/months- consecutively or not- without washing it…. I don’t understand the cachet of aping the unavoidable and unfortunate circumstance of someone who is homeless. At the shelter where I volunteer, the kids are happy to use the free washer/dryer/detergent.
It seems we have found the $109 notebook.
How expensive you can make something has nothing to do with its quality.
I find it outrageous if not downright foolish that a man would walk into a store and purchase a pair of chinos for $288! It seems that anything marketed with the word “selvedge” attached to it can command a premium divorced from real market value and worth. I have a funny feeling that the customer that these are marketed towards is attracted to anything “crafted” of “Horween Leather” or perhaps anything “waxed”. A customer for whom leather wrist “cuffs” and a “tote” play a major role in their daily dress.
A fool and his money are lucky to get together in the first place I guess.
Will stick with the rugged American-made Chinos I got over at Gustin … I love J Crew as much as the next guy but nobody with any sense would that kind of money for a Chinese garment.
And the hits keep on coming. I had to put my tote
down to read this.
I’m glad i live in oklahoma city so that my grinders oxfords, black dickies 874 pants from walmart and band t shirts plus some alternative apparel, and american apparel shirts make me look okay but not fashionable among the hipsters and jocks and harold hamms of the world in their urban outfitters/jcrew clothes, vineyard vines/southern tide and tommy bahama. Just remember expensive clothes make the man!
Y’ALL DUDES IS NUTS
I stopped shopping J. Crew when they stopped carrying 36-waists in store.
So much vitriol for a company that saw and responded to a need guys had for a fresh take on classic clothes. I don’t get it. (But I somehow enjoyed reading the spleen-venting.)
J Crew has some great men’s clothing. I got married in one of their sharp Italian linen suits. No alterations needed off the rack, so lucky me. Wore my dad’s old (and well-maintained) oxblood Johnston & Murphy Aristocrafts (from when they were US-made) and an old tie of his from the ’50s. Great look for saying “I do.”
Iown these pants. I love them. I bought them to keep me warm during a long winter. I get a lot of compliments on them. I wear them so often my 4 year old son asked, “Dad, do you love those pants? You wear them all the time.”
I own several pairs of Bills as well. I would say they are on par, or a little better. The thing that sets them apart is the fabric and the cut.
I agree they are really expensive, butI just checked JCrew, and they only have one size left in stock.
Thanks for the write up Michael. I was looking around to find others crazy enough to spend almost 300 dollars on pants.
Punchline from Best In Show.
Todd-
When’s the last time you went to J. Crew? 36 is a standard size they carry..
these are £288 GBP on the uk j crew store ($465 USD). lol
Now this to me is the good ole fashion ACL. (How I used to envy the number of comments your posts garnered.) Love this. MW, you still have the sway and ability to quicken the pulse and raise the ire of the (relative) waning few that even still give a shit about anything you or I or whoever else has done for years now. Honestly,Big Spence $ has it right. Who gives a fuck. You bought those pants (whether that’s true or not) and you wrote about them. I have the same ones and think they’re fucking great. You can’t blame the skeptics, but in every way, who fucking cares. Life’s way bigger than this. And I love you’ve given the reins to JG. You’re the bossman. Papa Williams. You’re Han Solo preserved in carbonite with the leisure to thaw yourself when you like. A shit ton of respect man. Back at the beginning of the fort, you were the prime reason and influence and you put me on. Has always meant a lot. I’m drunk, btw.
p.p.s. Not like drunk drunk though.