Comments on: The Scout Video | The Craftsmen of Billykirk http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/ Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:56:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: lee http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-25159 lee Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:00:11 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-25159 wow, great video and discussion. i realize i'm really late to the conversation, but this is something i think about a lot. i have studied and apprenticed in two different areas of craft for a combined total of 12 years and have been working on my own for the last 6. when i first began my own line i too was suspect and slightly resentful of the seemingly trendiness/superficiality of the renewed interest in craft and handmade, but i have grown to really embrace it. craft has been so undervalued and ignored for so many years that it is almost impossible to find an apprenticeship or proper schooling for those who do have a genuine interest. i don't know that guilds are the answer but i do agree that having a solid community and organizations to support artisans in their craft is really important to keeping them thriving and alive. and my hope is that with this new handmade "revival" that can become possible. i am familiar with BK's work and i believe it is very well built. and as someone familiar with the craft world i have to say that i really appreciate their sense of design as well. because something can be very well made, but it doesn't mean its well designed....and that really matters. i think sometimes there can also be suspicion when the story turns into these two guys, or so and so company have rediscovered the lost art of leathercraft or whatever it may be. when really there have always been people keeping the tradition alive but with little notice. in leather work for instance, barbara shaum and jutta neumann have been doing it for decades now in nyc, they are not very pr savvy so not so popular in the blogosphere. a good story is just as important as a good product i guess. wow, great video and discussion. i realize i’m really late to the conversation, but this
is something i think about a lot. i have studied and apprenticed in two different
areas of craft for a combined total of 12 years and have been working on my own for the last 6. when i first began my own line i too was suspect and slightly resentful
of the seemingly trendiness/superficiality of the renewed interest in craft and handmade, but i have grown to really embrace it. craft has been so undervalued and ignored for so many years that it is almost impossible to find an apprenticeship or proper schooling for those who do have a genuine interest. i don’t know that guilds
are the answer but i do agree that having a solid community and organizations
to support artisans in their craft is really important to keeping them thriving and alive.
and my hope is that with this new handmade “revival” that can become possible.

i am familiar with BK’s work and i believe it is very well built. and as someone
familiar with the craft world i have to say that i really appreciate their sense of
design as well. because something can be very well made, but it doesn’t mean
its well designed….and that really matters.
i think sometimes there can also be suspicion when the story turns into these
two guys, or so and so company have rediscovered the lost art of leathercraft or
whatever it may be. when really there have always been people keeping the tradition alive but with little notice. in leather work for instance, barbara shaum and
jutta neumann have been doing it for decades now in nyc, they are not very pr savvy so not so popular in the blogosphere.
a good story is just as important as a good product i guess.

]]> By: andrew http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21697 andrew Mon, 16 Nov 2009 02:29:12 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21697 How can i become an apprentice at BK? I would love to learn the timeless process of crafting leather goods. BK seems like perfect place for me to learn this invaluable craft. How can i become an apprentice at BK? I would love to learn the timeless process of crafting leather goods. BK seems like perfect place for me to learn this invaluable craft.

]]> By: PAN http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21379 PAN Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:26:59 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21379 funny, a good friend of mine lives in that building, directly above the Billykirk space...maybe i'll pass through for a meet'n'greet soon funny, a good friend of mine lives in that building, directly above the Billykirk space…maybe i’ll pass through for a meet’n'greet soon

]]> By: PAN http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21378 PAN Thu, 12 Nov 2009 01:24:44 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21378 a little more detail about Billykirk's roots in craftsmanship from GQ http://www.gq.com/style/blogs/the-gq-eye/2009/11/dropping-in-on-the-billykirk-brothers-at-work.html a little more detail about Billykirk’s roots in craftsmanship from GQ
http://www.gq.com/style/blogs/the-gq-eye/2009/11/dropping-in-on-the-billykirk-brothers-at-work.html

]]> By: Craig http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21106 Craig Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:47:13 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21106 Great short film, I am new to Billy Kirk products and it's always nice to see or hear about a brands production, inspiration etc.. Great short film, I am new to Billy Kirk products and it’s always nice to see or hear about a brands production, inspiration etc..

]]> By: David http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21105 David Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:43:47 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21105 Love the video man it is good to see that some designers still do realize the aspect of remaining true to their roots. The video gave a real big insight into how the Billykirk company/brand is run. Ultimately it seems like family is first, well at least to me that is the feeling I get from the band of brothers behind the idea of the the Billykirk machine. Love the video man it is good to see that some designers still do realize the aspect of remaining true to their roots. The video gave a real big insight into how the Billykirk company/brand is run. Ultimately it seems like family is first, well at least to me that is the feeling I get from the band of brothers behind the idea of the the Billykirk machine.

]]> By: himelator http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-21055 himelator Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:06:02 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-21055 there is a multiple confusion it seems going on here. There are traditions and craft in every country...Indonesians master batik..leather from Mexico or Morocco, and Navajo rugs from Arizona. I think the real issue is about learning how to manufacture slowly, using ethical components as much as possible and paying fair wages. The goal is to product long lasting products with the best materials possible for a fair price while paying fair wages. Chinas failure is not lack of skill, it is mass production of crap that is toxic to both the Chinese and their environment and everybody else, while indifferent crap producers become insanely wealthy passing on zero savings to the consumer. Learning old techniques is a two part process. Having a fetish for old things teaches you about construction techniques...recreating old things teachings real methods to make designs work. The more you make with the proper ethos the more you learn about your product. I suspect these young men have a passion and working with Amish craftsmen they will learn to master their trade. It is an inevitability...it is strange that there would be hostility toward that goal. there is a multiple confusion it seems going on here. There are traditions and craft in every country…Indonesians master batik..leather from Mexico or Morocco, and Navajo rugs from Arizona. I think the real issue is about learning how to manufacture slowly, using ethical components as much as possible and paying fair wages. The goal is to product long lasting products with the best materials possible for a fair price while paying fair wages. Chinas failure is not lack of skill, it is mass production of crap that is toxic to both the Chinese and their environment and everybody else, while indifferent crap producers become insanely wealthy passing on zero savings to the consumer. Learning old techniques is a two part process. Having a fetish for old things teaches you about construction techniques…recreating old things teachings real methods to make designs work. The more you make with the proper ethos the more you learn about your product. I suspect these young men have a passion and working with Amish craftsmen they will learn to master their trade. It is an inevitability…it is strange that there would be hostility toward that goal.

]]> By: twoShay http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-20984 twoShay Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:47:17 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-20984 Derek, you are seriously mistaken about guilds in the U.S. One of the things that made America different from the "Old World" is that craftsmen here were always largely free of the oppressive guild structures that stifled ingenuity back home. The trade union we do have here, like painters unions in New York that limit maximum brushes sizes are anything but a guarantee of quality. Their main reason for existence is to make sure their members get maximum pay and that non member get no work. Skilled immigrants from Europe that had some initiative were able to run with ideas here that they never would have been able to get anywhere with in Europe. Many of them would never have been able to open their own shops back home because of strict guild rules, but thrived here. I'm glad that we have a system where a pair of smart brothers can find a trade that excites them, set about learning it and then dive in and start making some things. Look at the Wright brothers for another example. They didn't come up through a bicycle guild and certainly not an airplane guild, nor did they keep their discoveries secret like an airplane guild would have if they had begun one. Levi Strauss is another great example. Think you'd be wearing blue jeans if there had been a tailors guild in San Francisco back in the 1870's? Do something with your own hands for a while and then tell it like it is about handmade things. Derek, you are seriously mistaken about guilds in the U.S. One of the things that made America different from the “Old World” is that craftsmen here were always largely free of the oppressive guild structures that stifled ingenuity back home. The trade union we do have here, like painters unions in New York that limit maximum brushes sizes are anything but a guarantee of quality. Their main reason for existence is to make sure their members get maximum pay and that non member get no work.

Skilled immigrants from Europe that had some initiative were able to run with ideas here that they never would have been able to get anywhere with in Europe. Many of them would never have been able to open their own shops back home because of strict guild rules, but thrived here.

I’m glad that we have a system where a pair of smart brothers can find a trade that excites them, set about learning it and then dive in and start making some things. Look at the Wright brothers for another example. They didn’t come up through a bicycle guild and certainly not an airplane guild, nor did they keep their discoveries secret like an airplane guild would have if they had begun one.

Levi Strauss is another great example. Think you’d be wearing blue jeans if there had been a tailors guild in San Francisco back in the 1870′s? Do something with your own hands for a while and then tell it like it is about handmade things.

]]> By: susan http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-20956 susan Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:43:12 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-20956 If you guys hung out at any of the more lady- centric sites that I do- I have read through this argument well before. First off- mastery of almost anything from ice hockey to the viola can be yours for the bargain price of 10,000 hours of practice. There has been a lot more research and discussion about it since Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it in his last book "The Outliers". Second, I agree with Gary- it's more than a little racist to assume that Italian tailors with 10 or 20 years of experience are inherently more masterful than their Indian, or Chinese counterparts with the same materials and experience. Third- I also hang out on more lady-centric sites (such as The Purse Forum) and there are lots and LOTS of debates about quality (down to the size of RiRi zipper selected and minute differences between leather finishes and stitch count per inch on high end leather goods.) And in this day in age; "Made in Italy" does not necessarily denote hand made by guilded master craftsmen with 20,000 hours of experience- it might just mean "made in Italy" by cheaper imported foreign contract laborers. Sometimes the much heralded "quality" of some brands is really just excellent "quality control"- ie not releasing goods to market that have even the *slightest* imperfection. AB- thanks for the clarification- I am still in love with their bags. And I love a good inspiration story. ACL- Groundhog day what? If you guys hung out at any of the more lady- centric sites that I do- I have read through this argument well before.

First off- mastery of almost anything from ice hockey to the viola can be yours for the bargain price of 10,000 hours of practice. There has been a lot more research and discussion about it since Malcolm Gladwell wrote about it in his last book “The Outliers”.

Second, I agree with Gary- it’s more than a little racist to assume that Italian tailors with 10 or 20 years of experience are inherently more masterful than their Indian, or Chinese counterparts with the same materials and experience.

Third- I also hang out on more lady-centric sites (such as The Purse Forum) and there are lots and LOTS of debates about quality (down to the size of RiRi zipper selected and minute differences between leather finishes and stitch count per inch on high end leather goods.) And in this day in age; “Made in Italy” does not necessarily denote hand made by guilded master craftsmen with 20,000 hours of experience- it might just mean “made in Italy” by cheaper imported foreign contract laborers. Sometimes the much heralded “quality” of some brands is really just excellent “quality control”- ie not releasing goods to market that have even the *slightest* imperfection.

AB- thanks for the clarification- I am still in love with their bags. And I love a good inspiration story.

ACL- Groundhog day what?

]]> By: Michael http://www.acontinuouslean.com/2009/11/05/the-scout-video-the-craftsmen-of-billykirk/#comment-20953 Michael Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:43:38 +0000 http://www.acontinuouslean.com/?p=12688#comment-20953 I have a crush on both of them....and their bags. I have a crush on both of them….and their bags.

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